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	<title>Comments for Zach's Theological Musings</title>
	<link>http://onelord.cn/blog</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on No Harm for the Righteous? by Pete</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/03/31/no-harm-for-the-righteous/#comment-3152</link>
		<author>Pete</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 02:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/03/31/no-harm-for-the-righteous/#comment-3152</guid>
		<description>Hi Zach,

Thanks for sharing.  I've been reading Proverbs regularly of late and the issue of proper interpretation has been eating at my craw for some time.  I found your thoughts to be insightful and biblical.  Thanks for taking the time.

In Christ,
Pete

P.S.  Good to see another math person living for Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Zach,</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing.  I&#8217;ve been reading Proverbs regularly of late and the issue of proper interpretation has been eating at my craw for some time.  I found your thoughts to be insightful and biblical.  Thanks for taking the time.</p>
<p>In Christ,<br />
Pete</p>
<p>P.S.  Good to see another math person living for Jesus.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Reformed-Complementarian Link by Lionel Woods</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-2584</link>
		<author>Lionel Woods</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-2584</guid>
		<description>I would be a good subject I think. I am both Calvinistic as it relates to salvation, yet very much egalitarian in both church practice and personal marriage. I am reading both positions but lean more towards an egalitarian view that could be because I am what would be labeled New Covenant though. Also check out www.searchingtogether.org they have an article called "Are sisters free to function"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be a good subject I think. I am both Calvinistic as it relates to salvation, yet very much egalitarian in both church practice and personal marriage. I am reading both positions but lean more towards an egalitarian view that could be because I am what would be labeled New Covenant though. Also check out <a href="http://www.searchingtogether.org" rel="nofollow">www.searchingtogether.org</a> they have an article called &#8220;Are sisters free to function&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Reformed-Complementarian Link by Mike Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-1222</link>
		<author>Mike Aubrey</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-1222</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Now, with your neck thus bent, Rev 19 overlaps with Gen 2 (passing through 1 Cor 11 and Eph 5 on the way), the shadow of God/Jesus’ initiatory/leading role in the “divine romance” is taken up by a husband, and the particular submissiveness which adorns the church is embodied in a wife.&lt;/i&gt;

...or infelicitous exegesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Now, with your neck thus bent, Rev 19 overlaps with Gen 2 (passing through 1 Cor 11 and Eph 5 on the way), the shadow of God/Jesus’ initiatory/leading role in the “divine romance” is taken up by a husband, and the particular submissiveness which adorns the church is embodied in a wife.</i></p>
<p>&#8230;or infelicitous exegesis.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Reformed-Complementarian Link by zach</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-862</link>
		<author>zach</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-862</guid>
		<description>Believer3,

  Loosely speaking, yes. But to be a bit more precise I would say it depends on the context of what we are talking about.
  In the context of talking about God's "living parable" of human marriage, yes most definitely the man is representing God/Christ and the woman is representing God's people, the church. The classic text on this is of course Ephesians 5, but it is equally clear from the abundant references to God as husband and Israel as bride in the OT, especially the Prophets.
  In the context of talking about the "living parable" of creation as a whole, man and woman together bear the image of God, which I understand to mean that they represent the Great King in the way they, as miniature kings and queens, rule over their domain (Gen 1:26ff).
  Now granted, Common Loon's post was more oriented towards the "church life" aspect of complementarianism, whereas my response was more oriented towards the "family life" aspect. At this point I'm not hearing any one question the link between these two aspects, so I felt it sufficient in this post to discuss the link between Reformed theology and "family life" complementarianism.



Brother (or Sister?) Loon,

  Got me!?! Honestly, Reformed egalitarians and Arminian complementarians do make me scratch my head. I very much enjoy the ministry of Mike and Debi Pearl for what seems from my perspective as a very "horizontal Calvinist" approach to family life. And yet they are fiercely anti-Calvinist in the original, vertical sense. I haven't yet wrapped my mind around why.
  I may not have an answer to completely satisfy you or me, but here are a few thoughts.
  For one, I'm not suggesting that most of the New Reformed complementarians consciously see the connection I am talking about. Indeed, based on the blog posts and comments I've seen in reply to your post, it would seem that most do not see this link. In conversations with fellow Reformed complementarians, I have heard friends reply to this observation with, "Oh yes! I see what you mean!" When I pointed out the link, it was perfectly clear to them, but they hadn't explicitly thought on it before. I think the emotional and Biblical processes a person goes through to accept one of these two doctrines TENDS TO pave the way for receiving the other, but it is understandable that not everyone would be utterly compelled to buy the package deal.
  But second, I wonder whether it is even really necessary to "account for... well-respected Reformed egalitarian theologians and evangelical scholars"? Historically, how common is such a combination? If the people you mention are outliers in the big picture, then I would simply say that we always expect some such outliers from the general pattern. My sense of the matter, having not researched it at all, is that historically Reformed egalitarians would be rare enough to not require an explanation for their existence.
  Finally, rather than speculating about other people's thought process, I would be interested to hear from a Reformed egalitarian and a non-Reformed complementarian regarding their thoughts on the link I have proposed. But to the best of my knowledge, I would categorize all my Christian friends that I can think of as either Reformed complementarian, or, shall we say, non-Reformed non-complementarian. If you have a willing, devout Reformed egalitarian test subject to send this way, I'd be interested to hear their feedback.

His,
  Zach</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Believer3,</p>
<p>  Loosely speaking, yes. But to be a bit more precise I would say it depends on the context of what we are talking about.<br />
  In the context of talking about God&#8217;s &#8220;living parable&#8221; of human marriage, yes most definitely the man is representing God/Christ and the woman is representing God&#8217;s people, the church. The classic text on this is of course Ephesians 5, but it is equally clear from the abundant references to God as husband and Israel as bride in the OT, especially the Prophets.<br />
  In the context of talking about the &#8220;living parable&#8221; of creation as a whole, man and woman together bear the image of God, which I understand to mean that they represent the Great King in the way they, as miniature kings and queens, rule over their domain (Gen 1:26ff).<br />
  Now granted, Common Loon&#8217;s post was more oriented towards the &#8220;church life&#8221; aspect of complementarianism, whereas my response was more oriented towards the &#8220;family life&#8221; aspect. At this point I&#8217;m not hearing any one question the link between these two aspects, so I felt it sufficient in this post to discuss the link between Reformed theology and &#8220;family life&#8221; complementarianism.</p>
<p>Brother (or Sister?) Loon,</p>
<p>  Got me!?! Honestly, Reformed egalitarians and Arminian complementarians do make me scratch my head. I very much enjoy the ministry of Mike and Debi Pearl for what seems from my perspective as a very &#8220;horizontal Calvinist&#8221; approach to family life. And yet they are fiercely anti-Calvinist in the original, vertical sense. I haven&#8217;t yet wrapped my mind around why.<br />
  I may not have an answer to completely satisfy you or me, but here are a few thoughts.<br />
  For one, I&#8217;m not suggesting that most of the New Reformed complementarians consciously see the connection I am talking about. Indeed, based on the blog posts and comments I&#8217;ve seen in reply to your post, it would seem that most do not see this link. In conversations with fellow Reformed complementarians, I have heard friends reply to this observation with, &#8220;Oh yes! I see what you mean!&#8221; When I pointed out the link, it was perfectly clear to them, but they hadn&#8217;t explicitly thought on it before. I think the emotional and Biblical processes a person goes through to accept one of these two doctrines TENDS TO pave the way for receiving the other, but it is understandable that not everyone would be utterly compelled to buy the package deal.<br />
  But second, I wonder whether it is even really necessary to &#8220;account for&#8230; well-respected Reformed egalitarian theologians and evangelical scholars&#8221;? Historically, how common is such a combination? If the people you mention are outliers in the big picture, then I would simply say that we always expect some such outliers from the general pattern. My sense of the matter, having not researched it at all, is that historically Reformed egalitarians would be rare enough to not require an explanation for their existence.<br />
  Finally, rather than speculating about other people&#8217;s thought process, I would be interested to hear from a Reformed egalitarian and a non-Reformed complementarian regarding their thoughts on the link I have proposed. But to the best of my knowledge, I would categorize all my Christian friends that I can think of as either Reformed complementarian, or, shall we say, non-Reformed non-complementarian. If you have a willing, devout Reformed egalitarian test subject to send this way, I&#8217;d be interested to hear their feedback.</p>
<p>His,<br />
  Zach</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Reformed-Complementarian Link by Mike Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-861</link>
		<author>Mike Aubrey</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-861</guid>
		<description>Nonsense. Pure nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nonsense. Pure nonsense.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Reformed-Complementarian Link by The Common Loon</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-860</link>
		<author>The Common Loon</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-860</guid>
		<description>Thanks Zach for engaging my questions and offering an intriguing explanation.

If your theory is correct, how might it account for the well-respected Reformed egalitarian theologians and evangelical scholars (Nicole, Mouw, Webster, Wolterstorff etc.) mentioned in my original post?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Zach for engaging my questions and offering an intriguing explanation.</p>
<p>If your theory is correct, how might it account for the well-respected Reformed egalitarian theologians and evangelical scholars (Nicole, Mouw, Webster, Wolterstorff etc.) mentioned in my original post?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Reformed-Complementarian Link by Believer3</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-858</link>
		<author>Believer3</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/07/06/the-reformed-complementarian-link/#comment-858</guid>
		<description>If I am reading you correctly, you are suggesting that womanhood or femininity represents humanity and manhood or masculinity represents God.  Is that correct?  Would you please show me where you see that in Scripture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I am reading you correctly, you are suggesting that womanhood or femininity represents humanity and manhood or masculinity represents God.  Is that correct?  Would you please show me where you see that in Scripture?</p>
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		<title>Comment on On The Ethics of Murdering Murderers by Jen</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/06/11/on-the-ethics-of-murdering-murderers/#comment-780</link>
		<author>Jen</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2009/06/11/on-the-ethics-of-murdering-murderers/#comment-780</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing that. It's probably one of the most honest, thorough and challenging pieces I've read on the subject in the days since the murder of Tiller. It puts the superficial, oversimplified discussions of Mohler and Dobson to shame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing that. It&#8217;s probably one of the most honest, thorough and challenging pieces I&#8217;ve read on the subject in the days since the murder of Tiller. It puts the superficial, oversimplified discussions of Mohler and Dobson to shame.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Declaration of Independence Vs. The Bible, Part I by Jen</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2008/06/24/the-declaration-of-independence-vs-the-bible-part-i/#comment-755</link>
		<author>Jen</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2008/06/24/the-declaration-of-independence-vs-the-bible-part-i/#comment-755</guid>
		<description>Zack, you posted this on my blog, and I think I agree with you: "I would actually argue that killing abortion doctors is more Biblically justified than the American Revolution." 

I also agree with your post in that I do not believe we have any "rights." All the good we experience is mercy and grace. 

I guess I'm still left wondering though--When, if ever, does civil disobedience allow or even invoke us to take up the sword? 

If the founders were wrong in their stated justification for throwing off tyranny, was there a worthy justification?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zack, you posted this on my blog, and I think I agree with you: &#8220;I would actually argue that killing abortion doctors is more Biblically justified than the American Revolution.&#8221; </p>
<p>I also agree with your post in that I do not believe we have any &#8220;rights.&#8221; All the good we experience is mercy and grace. </p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m still left wondering though&#8211;When, if ever, does civil disobedience allow or even invoke us to take up the sword? </p>
<p>If the founders were wrong in their stated justification for throwing off tyranny, was there a worthy justification?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Declaration of Independence Vs. The Bible, Part I by NIck</title>
		<link>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2008/06/24/the-declaration-of-independence-vs-the-bible-part-i/#comment-736</link>
		<author>NIck</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 19:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://onelord.cn/blog/index.php/2008/06/24/the-declaration-of-independence-vs-the-bible-part-i/#comment-736</guid>
		<description>Amen. Pretty challenging, not to my intellect, but to the way of life that I live. I easily see this as true, but know it will be much more difficult to change my way of life...only by God's grace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen. Pretty challenging, not to my intellect, but to the way of life that I live. I easily see this as true, but know it will be much more difficult to change my way of life&#8230;only by God&#8217;s grace.</p>
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